Interview with The Dickies

This interview with Leonard Grave Phillips of The Dickies was conducted by Devon Bertsch via e-mail throughout July and August of 2004. Any readers who own a record label should take particular note of the tribute album question.

Me: Some of your lyrics are hard to decipher. What's the funniest misunderstood Dickies lyric you've heard?

Leonard Grave Phillips: I'll have to refrain from answering that one because when people get our lyrics wrong, they're usually better than the original.

M: Well, have you ever stolen someone's improvements and made them official, then?

LGP: I take umbrage with the word stolen... I prefer the term adapted.

M: Sorry.

LGP: No need for apologies, Devon. Seriously, it's rare, but when it happens I try to give credit where it's due. For example, on the song "Zeppelina" from the Idjit Savant record, there was the lyric, "I used to dream about you in my sleep. That when I woke up you'd be mine to keep." I didn't have a follow up rhyme, and asked my guitarist friend Glen if he had any ideas. He called me one night with the line, "Now that I am married to you I've been counting kisses in my sleep." Over the phone I'd thought he said, "Now that I am married to you I've been counting pigs instead of sheep!" I told him, "That's great!" and after we cleared up the miscommunication, I still gave him credit for the collaborative effort.

M: The Dickies were sometimes considered not punk. Since having that label gave you a bit of grief, how does it feel seeing new "punk" so readily labeled as such today?

LGP: I feel a bit vindicated...for nowadays "punk" as a generic term is used to describe a generic sound.

M: What do you think of Green Day?

LGP: I smell a loaded question...what can I say? Don't have any of their records. Sure wish I had their gig. Their bass player's a nice enough guy. He owns some diner in San Francisco called Joe Strummer's Lunch Box or some shit like that. Oh, no Rudy's I think it was...took us all out for breakfast. I enjoyed that first single of theirs with the walking bass line. You know the one I mean?

M: The first big single of theirs I remember was "Longview."

LGP: Was that the title? The one that's kind of a cross between "Always Something There to Remind Me" by Cliff Richard, and the Beatles "Getting Better All the Time"...cool tune.

M: Actually, I meant more what do you think of them as probably the largest band that The Dickies had a very big influence on (though I guess I did present it like it was a bit loaded).

LGP: I don't know about that, I think The Offspring tops them. But then again they (Offspring) were big fans before they formed. Personally I don't hear it. I remember when they (Green Day) broke big everyone would ask us (and them) that question. I think it rattled their cage a little bit ...ours too. I guess people made that connection due to their "pop" melodic sense. We got tired of people asking what we thought of Green Day, or do we feel ripped off, so in an interview once, Stan jokes, "Yeah. They should send us a check." Billy Joe caught wind of it, and slammed us in an interview. He sounded quite pissy, but I think it was all in good WWF type fun. But honestly, I never heard it. Billy Joe's melodic style has everything from The Clash to the theme from the Mary Tyler Moore Show in it. But if they like us, that's great. Like I said, Mike's a good guy, and his diner does a mean hash.

M: How the hell did you get The Incredible Shrinking Dickies and Dawn of the Dickies out within the same year?

LGP: Were they? I didn't think that was the case. I thought Shrinking was 78 and Dawn of 79.

M: I thought they were a year apart as well, but your soon to be official website lists them as both being originally released by A&M in '79.

LGP: Well, that site can sometimes be a fountainhead of misinformation. I often "prank" there myself. Shrinking was a series of singles released over a short period of time until it was finally released as a full LP. But to answer your question...you know how it is, five 20 year olds with a major label deal trying to meet deadlines and career goals. Dawn of the Dickies was a much more hectic effort than Shrinking. What it lacked in playing time, it made up for in production value and cohesion. It was still a bit shy by a song or two.

M: Do you think putting your first two LPs out so quick created a precedence a lazy band could not follow?

LGP: Well, yes and no. In our case there were a few other variables...but it's essentially true that if you blow too much of a wad it's harder to regroup expeditiously.

M: You attribute tipping your "hat to pop" via cover songs as a reason The Dickies were not always regarded as punk. Now you share a label with a group, Me First and the Gimme Gimmes, that only covers pop tunes and is made up of members of other respected punk bands. What do you think of that change in what the punk scene sees as acceptable?

LGP: Well, that certainly wasn't the only reason The Dickies were not always regarded as "punk." A lot of that "confusion" was also attributable to our melodies, harmonies, stage show, and arrangements. As for the second part to your question, we never really did perfunctory pop covers in the "traditional punk" style of something like the Gimme Gimmes (with perhaps the exception of "Sounds of Silence"). Our choice of cover arrangement was hardly ever just taking a song and making it "punk." I think our approach was a bit more subversive considering the band and the context of the times, even though we're often credited as pioneers of the "let's make that a punk song" formula.

M: Like how you said you covered pop songs that meant something to you?

LGP: Precisely...our covers usually must lend themselves to "musical" interpretation. Sometimes even re-write. When "The Banana Splits" theme was a hit in England, David Bowie's publisher sent us a copy of "Hang on to Yourself" sped up to 78 as a suggestion. It cracked me up. I thought, "Wow!...These people don't miss a trick!" I remember a few years ago there was some record made of "cartoon punk" covers (Saturday Morning Cartoons' Greatest Hits, a good idea ruined by including mostly crap artists - DEVON). "Banana Splits" by Liz Fair, "Gigantor" by Helmut. Some Billboard writer asked the producer why The Dickies weren't on it, or at least mentioned. He replied something to the effect of "Who are they?"

M: So, what did "Banana Splits" mean to you?

LGP: I might have listed "Splits" along with "Sounds of Silence" as a possible exception to that rule. I can get lazy with things like that. But "Splits" kind of straddles the fence of what we've discussed, in that both kid show & theme song seemed to embody what we were trying to say in terms of social commentary within the early L.A. punk scene.

M: The idea that what kind of social reform can you really be calling for if your big problem is your pool not being heated to the right temperature?

LGP: Exactly...hell! most of these Hollywood kids were listening to Peter Frampton or Foreigner before they started a punk band. Yet to listen to them, you'd think they grew up on nothing but MC5, Iggy or The Clash. We wanted to show all those bourgeois "punks" what it really MEANT to come from the valley.

M: So that was a big part of why you covered The Banana Splits' theme?

LGP: Not to mention we grew up with it (though not that great of a show). Old puppet-cartoon type shows had a massive influence on me. Lineage that goes back to the early 60's with shows like Pinky Lee or Soupy Sales, Shrimpenstein, Winchel Mahoney Time the list goes on and on. This subversive tradition has been carried on by Pee Wee Herman, and recently with T.V. Funhouse(my favorite) and Triumph the Insult Comic Dog.

M: What did you think of the Dawn of the Dead remake?

LGP: Pretty bad. I only saw it 'cause someone dragged me. Most remakes of b-movies are terrible because there's not much in the way of original text to explore. In this case, just a few regurgitated lines from the original. Plus in the 70's the shopping mall served as a great, microcosmic metaphor of self-delusion while the rest of the world went to hell. Now in the 21st century the whole world has become that shopping mall, so in the remake, the living pass their time by getting drunk and making porno's in a silly celebration of crass yuppie values.

M: You've said you wish for original Dickies material to be covered so you'd get lots of money, but sense that your vocal melodies left your songs with a "Don't Tread On Me" vibe. Do you now wish you'd used a less distinct singing style?

LGP: Yeah I guess so...singing less distinct, song writing more distinct...I don't know. If I can't get my wallet massaged, perhaps my ego...like a Dickies tribute album with performances by The Dammed, Weezer, Redd Kross, System of a Down, Offspring, Bad Religion, NOFX, Gimme Gimmes. Ha! Who am I kidding?! My ego doesn't need any massaging! Let's get back to my wallet…Good Charlotte; Sum 41; Blink 182, 183, 184; Green Day; Blue Man Group...

M: I was wondering about a tribute album the other day. Have you guys ever been approached about one?

LGP: Not yet…(hint hint).....can I airlift anyone another clue?

M: Would you recommend the 8mm Bugs Bunny wrap down as an audition technique for other budding vocalists?

LGP: Yes... especially for rappers.

M: Stan has said that he thinks Dawn of the Dickies is the best Dickies album, but that All This and Puppet Stew is also very good. What's your opinion?

LGP: Idjit Savant, Dawn of the Dickies and All this and Puppet Stew. Idjit Savant was on a shitty little label (XXX) but as fate would have it also happens to be our Magnum Opus...I'm pretty proud of it.

M: It's a damn good record. Did the film Marquis, where De Sade has lengthy conversations with his penis, answer any of your remaining questions of what it might be like if you could talk to Stuart?

LGP: Haven't seen it...but I'd doubt it could provide any more insight than Stuart and myself already share.

M: You seem to equate punk with velocity. Does the "Nobody nobody nobody…" refrain from "Nobody But Me" from your last two albums firmly cement The Dickies as a punk band in your opinion, then?

LGP: Uh...yeah sure.

M: You cite drugs as causing several years of regret, with the only worthwhile thing coming out of that era of your life being your video collection. Has the DVD revolution lessened the value of that?

LGP: Make that several decades of regret. And, yeah videocassette was more interesting for me cause I could do 6 hour theme tapes with inserted shorts and specials. Had more intrinsic value, however my tape collection has been decimated by years of lending and theft. Brings to mind an old Soft Machine lyric, "It begins with a blessing and ends with a curse..making life easy...by making it worse."

M: While doing a Q &A, you outlined what you would do if you were in charge after 911, mentioning that you would invade Iraq. What are your thoughts on the way that has come to fruition?

LGP: So far so good. The fascist regime of Hussein has been toppled, and if we stay involved, hopefully the Iraqi people will have a chance at a representational democracy (first of it's kind in those parts). But that's just the tip of a much larger iceberg whose history involves the parceling out of Arab states by the Brits. Going all the way back to the fall of the Ottoman Empire, the post WW11 emergence of Israel, the displacement of Palestine, the economic reality of one of the world's most precious commodities OIL, not to mention the extremist clash of Judea-Christian, Zionist, and Islamic cultures. All enhanced by the jet fueled, cyber-alacrity of the modern nuclear age. What I'm talking about kids, is a slow and inexorable march to WW111. Which may or may not be averted but will, never the less, take the next few decades to play out. And whether or not Bush, Kerry or Bozo's at the helm... a long and bloody struggle it will be.

M: Does this idea for an invasion, even if presented jokingly, cause any turmoil between you and Fat Mike, head of your record label, since he is so vehemently opposed to Bush and what he's done?

LGP: I doubt it. Mike's affiliation with The Dickies is based on artistic respect, not politics. Fortunately, he didn't ask me to pass a political quiz before signing us. And after all, The Dickies aren't politipunks. We don't bumper sticker our records or climb aboard the counter culture bandwagon. I had a short dispassionate talk with Mike about the American political scene last Christmas. I told him one of the true paths to wisdom is finding out you're wrong. He agreed. He told me "I love it when I find out I'm wrong." I respect the hell out of that. Looks like the Dems have a good chance of taking the White House in November, anyway. When people ask me why The Dickies aren't on Rock Against Bush, I simply tell them I've been rockin' against bush since I was 16.

M: Do you think Killer Klowns from Outer Space overplayed the theme song?

LGP: The movie no, the record yes.

M: Have you ever come up with a lyric or song you couldn't actually use because you thought it would be too offensive?

LGP: I often try to be in censor mode when writing lyrics. I'll try to couch what I'm saying in inane wit rather than verbal shock. Often times when writers try too hard to offend, their humor becomes forced. But still...plenty gets past me when I get too focused on other things. Therefore there are many examples of clumsy Dickies lyrics. "My Pop the Cop" was first written as "HIV" (clumsy AND a bit offensive) I've a working title for a new song called "I Hate Punk Rock."

M: Will the new song be on a new, highly offensive, album anytime soon?

LGP: Just as soon as I fix that fence

M: Is there anything else you'd like to ad?

LGP: Yes…always remember never to forget.

More info on The Dickies can be found at www.thedickies.com. Missing a Dickies album? They all are essential! Correct your egregious wrong now! Here's a starting point, and remember to buy NEW where possible: The Dickies on Amazon or The Dickies on Best Buy.

More info on how to improve King Kong can be found at F.U.C.K.W.A.D.S.

Thanks to Leonard for putting up with my shit, Jackie for helping shape the questions into something other than the rantings of a total fanboy, and Chris for giving me a place to put this.