Financials mess

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Financials mess

Post by DeathFrogg » Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:51 am

A very interesting article on what is happening right now in the banking industry. Fact is, this bailout we saw last week is a cash handover to the people that caused the crisis in the first place. These assholes will get multimillion dollar golden parachutes and keep their 20,000 square foot houses in the Hamptons or Long Island and WE get to pay for those. Hell, Lehmann Bros CEO gets to walk away with $17.3 million dollars cash, for being the biggest financial fuckup since that kid in Indonesia tried to corner the copper market 11 years ago. Must be nice to have low freinds in high places.

Canned food and ammo, people. Lots of it.
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"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. - Thomas Jefferson


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Post by DeathFrogg » Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:54 am

Oooohh, found another good'n.

I gotta quit reading this shit before I go to work. It makes me cranky.
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When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross. -Sinclair Lewis


"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. - Thomas Jefferson

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Post by PnDsCm » Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:44 am

You can find a draft of the proposed legislation of this bailout here:

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/arch ... rauds.html

Along with some extra commentary on each section.

The thing to remember about the bailout is first that it give Paulson almost complete dictatorial control over our economy, thereby removing any pretense of the free market capitalist system that they pretend that we live under, and second that the 700 billion is only the maximum dollar amount that he can control AT ANY ONE TIME, meaning that he can launder as much of that shitty debt throught the federal government as he wants.

Congratulations everyone, you're about to be shorn in a way they haven't managed to in 8 decades.

If you give half a shit, educate yourselves about this issue in a hurry and call your senators and representative and tell them to let Wall St., Bernanke and Paulson go straight to the fiery pit where hopefully some major demon will poke them in the ass with a pitchfork.
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Post by PnDsCm » Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:49 am

An easy to read spam that explains a little more about what's going on:

Hello,

Well, I apologize for borderline spamming folks, but I feel we're at a critical point in the history of America, and which path we choose, could ultimately lead to the destruction or future success of our economy/government.

What the current bailout plan does, is essentially anoint a "King" of our financial system. According to the bill, Paulson's actions will NOT be reviewable by our judicial system, and he's given a BLANK CHECK to spend however he pleases. If that's not crazy, I don't know what is. Now, let's look at the "plan of action" that Paulson is looking to take.. He's proposing buying "distressed assets" of FUNCTIONING banks, and dumping them on the taxpayer. Then, essentially, he will be allowed to sell this paper (bonds) into the private market. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Now.. if there's currently no market for this paper held by these banks, how is the Treasury going to know the correct amount to purchase these assets for? The answer? He doesn't. What will happen is the assets will be purchased from the banks for above their true market value, and then sold in the private market for less than the Treasury paid.

Notice, the bill does NOT say the losses are limited to $700B. Just that the balance sheet at any one time is limited to $700B! So, he could repeat the cycle over and over, which would result in TRILLIONS of losses. Now, while these trillions directly being pumped into the banks could very well keep our system afloat, Hanky is leaving out one VERY BIG consideration. The government doesn't just "create" money. It has to "pay" for money as well. What I mean by this is, to finance this bailout endeavor, the government has to issue more debt into the market in the form of US treasuries. If trillions of new debt is issued into the market, what will happen to interest rates? They will RISE! How much, no one can say for sure, but if foreigners decide they don't want to purchase as much debt, the "cost" of this plan goes up infinitely. We could very possibly see double the interest rate on ten year treasuries from where we are now! What this does, is negate all the effects that Paulson was trying to make from this plan. For example.. if the banks are all solvent now, due to trillions being pumped into banks and dumped on the taxpayer, but interest rates are now 10%+ for a 30yr fixed mortgage. Home prices WILL collapse. The interest payments soar (due to the higher rate), and prices have no choice but to come down. On top of this, we ALSO risk the federal government being unable to pay its debt! The government defaulting on its debt essentially makes the dollar next to worthless, and we likely end up with a "new government." No thanks.

So, what's the "real" fix to our financial system? Stop the lying, that simple. We currently allow "off balance sheet" investments (ie: Enron) that don't have to be disclosed by banks. What this does is, it makes creditors hesitant to lend to these folks, because they honestly don't know whether they will get paid back. This along with "level 3" assets (assets that can't accurately be priced), and the ridiculous number of OTC (over the counter derivatives) are largely what is causing the "credit crunch." The fix to the current mess is simply for everyone to "lift their kimonos" and expose exactly what they're holding. If you are insolvent, so be it. There are strong banks that haven't taken on significant risk that will rise to fill the void by the other banks. The banking system is all about trust and confidence. With the current system, you simply can't have either.

Now, will choosing to stop the lying bring pain? Sure, but it fixes the system RIGHT NOW. With King Paulson's plan, the problems that led to this mess are not addressed. Not to mention.. Paulson was the CEO of Goldman Sachs just several years ago. Does anyone think there's a minor conflict of interest here? :-P For more information and great videos explaining the problem and the solution, visit:

http://fedupusa.org/

I strongly encourage everyone to call their congress folks and senators and voice your opinion about this bailout. We want a REAL fix, not some half *ss attempt to fix things by pouring money on the banks. Feel free to forward this along to anyone. The word needs to get out ASAP and stop this bill. Down bailout road lies the VERY real possibility of a government collapse. Thanks to everyone who read this and is making an effort!
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Post by DeathFrogg » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:55 am

Pretty good article on where the money was spent. These assholes just dont seem to get it. Fuck them all, line them up against the wall and shoot them. Fuckers have scammed us enough.

One stipulation in the bill is that Henry Paulson, the Secretary of the Treasury, be allowed total, complete unfettered discretion on where the money gets spent. In the proposed bill, it says that no court, no congressional oversight and no law should be allowed to interfere with his use of the money. Meaning this guy is planning on skimming off as much as he can for his freinds, with the blessing of the President, who himself stands to massively benefit .

The Texas mafia (Bush Family) has long been involved in first tier finance operations, currency markets and debt trading. It has always been a major part of their operations. The Silverado Savings and Loan scandal back in the late 80's was directly connected with Neil and Jeb Bush, as well as John McCain who tried to interfere with the SEC and FBI investigations on behalf of his freind Charlles Keating, a longtime Bush family ally and investor.

This is outright looting of the US Treasury. They aren't even trying to hide it anymore. In fact, it looks like they are setting it up right out in the open, meaning that they just dont give a shit. Once this bill passes, nobody, and I mean NOBODY, will be allowed to see where the money is being used or what for. Not the Courts, not Congress, and certainly not the press or anyone of us.

Heres how it is gong to really work:

Goldman Sachs gives Hank Paulson seven hundred million dollars (that’s seven zero zero comma zero zero zero comma zero zero zero) in salary and bonuses.

Goldman Sachs lends Hank Paulson to the Treasury (now that he can afford to be a public servant).

As the Secretary of the Treasury, Paulson insists that we give Goldman Sachs a lot of money, in exchange for a lot of crap. (If not, we all die), except it’s not Hank Paulson’s money, it’s our money.

If the crap turns out to be crap, we’re stuck with it. (And by the way: if it’s not crap, why are they so desperate to unload it?)

In four months, Paulson returns to Goldman Sachs.
Paulson receives salary and bonuses from the money we just gave to Paulson to give to Goldman Sachs to give to Paulson.

Balls of fucking steel these people.
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When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross. -Sinclair Lewis


"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. - Thomas Jefferson


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Post by AchimbaProphet » Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:05 pm

Here is a little perspective.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau population clock (http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html) at 19:56 GMT (EST+5) Sep 28, 2008 there was an approximate population of 305,282,270 in the United States.

$700,000,000,000USD (700 billion) is the number being discussed for the financial bailout.
Divide that number by the entire population of the United States estimated to be 305,282,270.
The total per each and every person is $2292.96. This is all inclusive, yes, even infants.

As you travel throughout life just think ~$2293 every time you see a person.

Of the taxes that you paid last year, how significant is the amount of $2293?
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Post by LIVE FO RETSINIM » Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:33 pm

When this shit finally does go down, members of the JJGC are invited to join my army of mountain people in the Rocky Mountains. Bring stuff to trade. I have anticipated this my whole life and always kind of knew this would happen. In high school my guidance councilor said my skills lie in "post-apocalyptic leadership" and I guess I will get to finally try them out. Next time you see me I will be standing on a huge pile of t-shirts pointing a long range rifle at your head. "Who goes there" I say, BLAM!!! Wrong answer. You better have a fucking tank if you try to fuck with me. Now make me some deer steaks and quit fuckin’ with that iPhone, it doesn’t work anyway.
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Post by Blake NWR » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:21 am

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Post by PnDsCm » Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:41 pm

We would have been fucked harder if they would have passed that piece of shit. For the first time in my LIFE I am completely behind the Republicans in the house. Good work fellas. 700 Billion is just not a meaningful number when you consider the massive problems created by the last 10 years of fiscal mis-management in this country. It's a little like trying to stop a tsunami by sending a little kid out with a pail and shovel.

Look for a horseshit rate cut by the fed next and that isn't going to do shit either.
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Post by Adremelech » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:30 pm

I'm glad the bailout was rejected. This just goes to show that we really can't predict what is going to happen. I thought for sure that it would pass, but this just restored my hope that this country will someday recover from this crap.

As for all the "We're fucked" attitudes running rampant these days, I disagree. Sure, our 401k's are fucked... But the sky is not going to fall. We'll get through this folks.
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Post by MetalGoddess » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:34 pm

Adremelech wrote:I'm glad the bailout was rejected. This just goes to show that we really can't predict what is going to happen. I thought for sure that it would pass, but this just restored my hope that this country will someday recover from this crap.

As for all the "We're fucked" attitudes running rampant these days, I disagree. Sure, our 401k's are fucked... But the sky is not going to fall. We'll get through this folks.
I sure hope you're right. I really do.

I am not as optimistic. I'm almost ready to pack up my family and leave for the Rocky Mountains, anyway. Take my losses here and blow this moldy depressing popsicle stand.
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Post by Adremelech » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:37 pm

First... For the record... I was a big supporter of Bill Clinton. I voted against GWB, and feel the same way toward him as most of the others here.

With that said...

We can't place the blame for this mess entirely on George Bush. Read this article, and note that it was published during the Clinton era. I'm not saying that it was Clinton's fault, but it does show that this mess was in the making Before Bush took power.
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Post by sdirt » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:38 pm

How the House voted

Yes No

Democrats 140 95
Republicans 65 133
Total 205 228
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Post by Adremelech » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:44 pm

sdirt wrote:How the House voted

Yes No

Democrats 140 95
Republicans 65 133
Total 205 228
Interesting. Like Pondscum said... The Republicans finally did something very right.

As for our barely alive economy, it is time to deal with the other thing that was screwing it. Oil closed at $97/bbl today. Lower the fucking fuel prices already. The current prices are screwing our economy at a time when it could really use some lube.
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Post by PnDsCm » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:08 pm

We'll recover better and stronger if we quit with the government intervention and take our licks. It ain't gonna be easy, but what the hell.
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Post by Adremelech » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:16 pm

PnDsCm wrote:We'll recover better and stronger if we quit with the government intervention and take our licks. It ain't gonna be easy, but what the hell.
Yup... And hopefully banks that survive this pay attention and don't make the same mistakes in the future.
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Post by PnDsCm » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:30 pm

Adremelech wrote:Yup... And hopefully banks that survive this pay attention and don't make the same mistakes in the future.
Or at least they could be regulated again. Another pointed failure of de-regulation.

And if any of you are voting in November I would like to remind you that the depression era banking regs that were repealed at the beginning of this piece of shit bubble were repealed by a bill written by Phil Gramm and supported by John McCain. Just FYI.
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Post by Adremelech » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:48 pm

PnDsCm wrote:Or at least they could be regulated again. Another pointed failure of de-regulation.
This
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Post by Morbid » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:34 pm

I hope things get back on track! I'm on the edge of getting laid off :(
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Post by sdirt » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:51 pm

Morbid wrote:I hope things get back on track! I'm on the edge of getting laid off :(
I hope things stay on track for me. I'm on the verge of getting laid.
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Post by Morbid » Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:14 pm

sdirt wrote:I hope things stay on track for me. I'm on the verge of getting laid.
It's been far to long... far far to long :(
16 year old groupies... HERE I COME!
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Post by derek666 » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:54 am

Adremelech wrote:First... For the record... I was a big supporter of Bill Clinton. I voted against GWB, and feel the same way toward him as most of the others here.

With that said...

We can't place the blame for this mess entirely on George Bush. Read this article, and note that it was published during the Clinton era. I'm not saying that it was Clinton's fault, but it does show that this mess was in the making Before Bush took power.


Finally, someone not blaming the retard in office!! The market has taken many a dumps and always recovers on its own. Does anyone remember "Black Monday?"

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Post by Blonde leading the blonde » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:08 am

derek666 wrote:Finally, someone not blaming the retard in office!! The market has taken many a dumps and always recovers on its own. Does anyone remember "Black Monday?"
Being old, yes -- yes, I do. I believe Ronald Regan was finishing off his last year or two of 8, with Bush Sr. in the copilot seat.
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Post by PnDsCm » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:52 am

Clinton is just as guilty as the rest of 'em for sure.
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Post by wadruid » Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:33 pm

The whole thing is summed up in one word...Politics!!

Now let's take a closer look at the word, politics...Let's break it into it's root words:

Poly-means "many"
Tics-"little blood sucking parasites"

There ya have it!!
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