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the whole grunge killed metal debate

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:03 am
by Scott
Ok, I know that this debate has been going on for who knows how long, but I want to put my two cents in. First of all, I listened (and still do) to the likes of both Motley Crue and Alice in Chains. There seems to be a debate that the Seattle grunge scene in the early 90s killed metal. Some say yes, others say no. Some say it just killed the hair metal scene. I disagree with all of the above. The hiar band scene wasn't done in by Nirvava, Smashing Pumpkins, or whoever. They were done in by themselves. The late 80s saw a rash of hair metal bands get signed to record labels. The idea if you were a record label was to find a band out of the L.A. scene, give em a few cans of hairspray and have them write at least one power ballad and you have yourselves a hit. This cookie cutter approach oversaturated the market. Nirvana comes along with a new image and fresh approach. The rest is history. I always agreed with Joe Elliott of Def Leppard when he said bands like Warrant, Winger, and Slaughter lacked any originality whatsoever. The other problem the hair metal scene was many of the bands took their larger than life image too far and lost touch with their audience. Many of the bands that made up the core of hair metal in the 80s like Motley Crue, Poison, and Ratt were having internal poblems as well. It seems as though the music scene cycles every ten years or so. Grunge itself was out by the end of the 90s. The hair metal scene was on its way out before Nirvana and grunge.

Now here's where there's a problem. It seemed that with grunge in full swing there was a decine in thrash metal's popularity as well. Yes, I know Metallica was still going strong but after the Black Album they went in a different direction with Load, a far take from Ride the Lightning or Master of Puppets. My question is why did the thrash metal scene and bands like Megadeth and Anthrax suddenly become seemingly obsolete the way bands like Warrant did? Thrash metal was totally different from the pop hair metal scene.

Now I want to get back to the subject of metal. Why is it nowadays that it seems like the metal scene has nearly been relegated to the underground or outside the mainstream? It's sickening to look at the billboard charts and see it dominated by corporate no-talent hacks like Hilary Duff and rap music. I'll save the subject of corporate artists for another thread.

Finally, this is just a prediction but I think that sometime before the end of the decade, that the rap scene will suffer the same fate as the 80s pop metal scene and it wll be the same thing. They will be done in by themselves because of too many "cookie cutter" style rappers.

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:52 pm
by Lode
That's an interesting prediction about rap. It definitely has changed and become somewhat of a joke in the mainstream aspect, but I don't think true hip hop will ever go out. Hip hop or r&b and old school rap has been around since the 80's or even earlier. It's 2005. 25 years? I don't think it's going away anytime soon.

As for rock/metal? I don't think any one scene has done in any other scene. Most genres are still going strong somewhere in the world. If you go to any european metal forum, people talk about thrash more than any other kind of metal. It's just the U.S. where corporate music is just what's on, and that's what we hear. You have to seek out the good stuff. Just cuz it's not "popular" or "the scene" doesn't mean it's not out there.

That's probably why so many people are into local music. Pick a genre, any genre, and you can go out and listen almost any weekend.

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:14 pm
by Demolition Hammer
Metal never died. It just went back underground where it belongs.

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:52 pm
by MaggotExistence
Demolition Hammer wrote:Metal never died. It just went back underground where it belongs.
thank you.

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:40 pm
by FAMILIAR CHILL
This cookie cutter approach oversaturated the market
And the SAME THING hasnt happened to EVERY genre of popular music since the beginning of time??

If it starts to take off....all of the labels are going to jump on the bandwagon and find clones. Until people are sick of it and jump to the next "TREND" in music. It is all a cycle...and then it is recycled.

Classic rock...Punk....Hair Metal...Grunge...Cookie Monster....Whatever it is, it will not be "TREND OF THE WEEK" for long.

Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:14 pm
by gsfnw
Yeah, grunge really made an impression on the music scene, but I think the gritty, no frills approach also made it's impression on other areas as well. TV, movies, etc. Everything changed.

As for your prediction on rap, I don't think so. Rap albums do not sell like rock albums in that their shelf life is very, very, short. The attention span of the listener is very short in most cases so I don't think the cookie cutter rap stars are going to loose much momentum. Rap music has been the same for 10 - 12 years. It hasn't seemed to have changed since The Chronic from Dr Dre. Now it's all the same shit - The mainstream anyway.

My two cents, not that it's even worth that much!

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:24 am
by Liu
Scott wrote:Now here's where there's a problem. It seemed that with grunge in full swing there was a decine in thrash metal's popularity as well. Yes, I know Metallica was still going strong but after the Black Album they went in a different direction with Load, a far take from Ride the Lightning or Master of Puppets. My question is why did the thrash metal scene and bands like Megadeth and Anthrax suddenly become seemingly obsolete the way bands like Warrant did? Thrash metal was totally different from the pop hair metal scene.
The fault in your logic lies in that the thrash was never that popular within the mainstream. The bands got very little exposure even in the heyday of Headbanger's Ball. Then all of a sudden they got no exposure at all and many freaked.

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:02 pm
by Scabass
Demolition Hammer wrote:Metal never died. It just went back underground where it belongs.
Yeah for sure..When 'everyone' was listening to 'grunge' I was still listening to SOD/Anthrax/Testament ect..and you know what...I am STILL listening to SOD/Anthrax/Testament..

Sure I went to alot of 'grunge' shows at Natasha's/Off-Ramp ect..but my heart will always be with thrash!

That being said..I still love the fuck out of AIC..matter of fact
np: Alice In Chains - Junkhead :cheers:

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:35 pm
by Epytoloh
I second that Junkhead

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:57 am
by HUNTKILLBURYFINN
i think grunge saved metal, evry thing go's in cycles. and the rock rap thing---i dont think it has been topped since rage agaisnt the machine, which if u think bout it is over 10 years ago. hip hop is fucked any way, bearing in mind ive got about 2000 hip hop vinyls. its a jhoke the whole package!!!! then u had the southern crunk etc that really put the last nail in the coffin for me. and all that diamonds and cars is just protraying an image of wastefullness, buying things that have no resell value. and u aint very hardcore walking around looking like libarache. dont even get me started on the violance thing. things all ways go stagnant then improve so untill then i'll keep listening to my old skool!!!!
and is grunge that differant to metal???? are mudhuney the melvins classed as grunge or punk??????? i thought grunge was wearing cardigans and cheaked shirts

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:59 am
by HUNTKILLBURYFINN
didnt vulgar display of power come out same time as nevermind??????