Please!!! Kill Bill already!!!

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Please!!! Kill Bill already!!!

Post by FOG » Fri Oct 10, 2003 4:54 pm

Jesus

and I thought SPUN's hip retro-ness was annoying.

Who is Quentin making this movie for?? Fans of cult movies or retards?

Ok - first of all, this movie is not a "grindhouse" movie, it doesn't capture the feel of a "grindhouse" movie, and the (I assume) purposely poorly recorded audio does not make you feel like you are watching this in a "grindhouse" theater.

Second, don't be fooled when you see the shaw scope and the grindhouse logo things at the first of the movie, because five minutes later you will be informed that all that was just for fun, and this is, in fact,

THE 4th FILM BY QUENTIN TARENTINO (which it actually says in the credits)

Third, I know he made the whole chopped up plot thing a mainstream device in new movies, and he has more right to it than anyone, but come on, enough is enough, don't make a mess!

fourth, choose whether or not you want your movie to be seriously dramatic or campy, because if you switch between the two in every frame of your movie, it will become uneven like Kill Bill.

Fifth, if you have a story as silly as this one - GET ON WITH IT!!!!
Stop bullshitting and get on with the action (the only stuff that is cool in this movie)

Sixth, get over yourself and how much you know about other "cool" movies. That's awesome that you know who Lucio Fulci is, SO DO I! Make your own damn movie. Oh yeh, and I remember seeing that scene where people walk all swanky to swanky music in another movie... hmm.... oh thats right, IT WAS YOUR FIRST MOVIE!

Seventh, don't hire Lucy Lu. Your movie will come out like Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle, which apparently (from what I've seen in the FUll Throttle previews) isn't too far from the truth. Only you have more blood. awesome.

Eigth, and last point, Do not have you characters say "Silly Rabbit, trix are for kids" in your movie. EVER.

Hey, if the damn movie was at least entertaining, I might give it a break. But it wasn't, it was boring, and annoying.

I went into this movie with probably some of the lowest expectations Ive had for a movie all year, and those weren't even met.

Kill Bill - two BIG thumbs DOWN.
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Post by Kimberly » Fri Oct 10, 2003 9:29 pm

See now I really liked Kill Bill... then again prior to seeing it, I had the displeasure of sitting thru House of the Dead.

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Post by TheZoo » Sat Oct 11, 2003 10:00 am

i thought it was good.

Its not his best but i was entertained at least.


it gets a horizontal thumb.

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KILL BILL

Post by David Austin » Sun Oct 12, 2003 5:48 pm

Sorry, Kev...but I'm with Kimberly on this one. KILL BILL was pretty fucking cool. Yeah, it's not high art or anything...but the QT makes a nice big beef stew and serves it up hot. Is it the first Film Noir/Samurai/Revenge Gore Movie? Probably not, but geez...It was cute, and GoGo Yubari was cool.
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Post by Darth Tanner » Sun Oct 12, 2003 7:11 pm

I kinda wish I had gone to see this Friday night instead of HOUSE OF THE DEAD as it might have been more entertaining. But I'll probably go out to see it sometime this week since I've been hearing good things about it. Also, I think Uma Thurman looks pretty sexy in that outfit so that's a big plus for me:)
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Post by Remo D » Sun Oct 12, 2003 8:33 pm

Though some parts were hard for me to take, I was enthralled by KILL BILL v. 1 from beginning to end. Maybe it was the comparision to HOUSE OF THE DEAD, but I doubt it.

As with CABIN FEVER, all the little references clicked with me. I didn't think they were there to show how "hip" Tarantino was and how much 70's pop culture he remembers.... hey, EVERYONE'S doing the 70's this year, no? I thought each reference triggered a specific buzz that greatly enhanced the effect of the scene in progress.

Best example: the screeching TV music every time the Bride faced one of her attackers. Okay--it's the theme from IRONSIDE. Ten points. But did you also know that that same music was cannibalized in the kung-fu hit FIVE FINGERS OF DEATH?

And we go on... the spaghetti westerns, the other martial arts classics (hey, we got SONNY CHIBA back on the big screen, followed by GORDON LIU, no? And we have yet to see the face of David Carradine!), and yes, the Fulci film (remember the state Jennifer O'Neill was in by the end of THE PSYCHIC?).

So... on one end of the spectrum, we've got Mick LaSalle of the SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE condemning this as "pornography" and "indefensible." And on the other hand, a four-star rave from my old nemesis Roger-Dodger. Guess who I'm siding with... THIS time.

Yes, it's one chaotic jumble at times--and yes, I would have been willing to bite the bullet and take the whole three hours at once rather than wait for the second half to be released. But as I see it, Tarantino really knew what he was doing all the way through this. Nice to have him back.
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KILL BILL homages

Post by David Austin » Sun Oct 12, 2003 9:10 pm

Excellent review as always, Remo D.

Wasn't the same FIVE FINGERS OF DEATH screech piece used in Oliver Stone's film SEIZURE?

When the infamous Robert Englund quote from Hooper's EATEN ALIVE popped up during the Coma Ward scene in KILL BILL, I nearly pissed myself laughing.

Oh yeah, and Go Go Yubari is still cool.
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Post by Griff [Mola] » Mon Oct 13, 2003 5:43 am

Originally posted by Remo D
...we've got Mick LaSalle of the SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE condemning this as "pornography" and "indefensible."


I just read this guy's review...

What a homo.

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Post by FOG » Mon Oct 13, 2003 6:44 am

I was happy to see someone finally agreeing with me.

then I got to the part where he called it "pornography".

and I laughed.

at him.
Let's ask him, what's the deal?

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Post by Remo D » Mon Oct 13, 2003 5:31 pm

A little more about Mick LaSalle for you... to put his "review" into perspective.

You see, around when PULP FICTION came out, LaSalle made a remark that "screen violence was starting to get interesting again."

He's regretted that remark ever since.

Post-Columbine, LaSalle published an article-length apology for that comment, thoroughly buying into the sentiment that screen violence had something to do with real-life violence and regretting his personal contribution.

His solution? Why not rate any movie in which a gun is fired with an NC-17? "What could it hurt?"

LaSalle's horror/action reviews have exhibited this same apologetic cluelessness from then on... (never mind that the last several years have proven to most of the world that the most horrifying real-life violence hasn't a damn thing to do with the movies) though, weirdly, he had some fun with the ultra-gory FREDDY VS. JASON--not enough to recommend it, but enough to rate it as a significantly better film than KILL BILL v.1.

But you see, here's Tarantino at it again (shall we agree that JACKIE BROWN was relatively restrained for him?), and LaSalle's own perpetually guilty conscience now demands that he excoriate the man and his work, so he can put himself "above" the violence. What are the odds that he knows a damn thing about what Tarantino's referring to? Where did that "fantasy" about the killer Catholic schoolgirl come from? Er... the late Kinji Fukasaku, perhaps? Kinji who? Lucio who?

The point flies wildly over his head... Sonny Chiba's THE STREET FIGHTER was the first film rated X for violence in the U.S. Fulci's films are controversial for their gore (and the first release of THE BEYOND was severely cut). Fukasaku's BATTLE ROYALE still isn't likely to get a proper U.S. release.

Tarantino is gathering all of the most controversially violent cinema material at his disposal and letting us have it with both barrels--ultimately proving that it's STILL a movie. By no means is his imagination the "barrenness" that LaSalle claims it is. Tarantino knows and understands the art of cinema violence (and the reasons behind it) more than a dozen Mick LaSalles put together... and he owes noone an apology for that.

I plan to put these thoughts together in a slightly more polite version and send it to LaSalle himself--if I do better in the "response" department than I've ever managed with Roger Ebert, I promise to share.

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Post by ROBERT » Mon Oct 13, 2003 9:42 pm

I plan to put these thoughts together in a slightly more polite version and send it to LaSalle himself--if I do better in the "response" department than I've ever managed with Roger Ebert, I promise to share.



I wouldn't be so polite. Lasalle obviously has a penis perpetually stuck up his ass, when he writes his reviews.As he does in real life, no doubt. I won't belabour points already made, but if it takes a film like this and Tarantino to stir up debate over on screen violence's "supposed" connections to real life violence, I'm all for it. I'd sure like to see the evidence. As for Kill Bill Vol 1, I'll be rushing to see it as soon as I can find the time. I haven't been this excited over an American genre film in a long time. Please keep us posted as soon as LaSalle replies Remo. Something tells me he won't, No matter how polite you are.
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Re: Please!!! Kill Bill already!!!

Post by Latte Thunder » Tue Oct 14, 2003 6:45 am

Originally posted by FOG
Eigth, and last point, Do not have you characters say "Silly Rabbit, trix are for kids" in your movie. EVER.
Let me guess. This is one of Uma's lines.

I haven't seen this one yet, but I've been looking forward to it for a long time. The script has been online for a long time now and I took the time to read it here at the office one day. It's a testament to Tarantino's ability as a writer, the script is very visual and by the time I got to the end, I badly wanted to see it in motion.

Tarantino is also deeply in love with Uma, and writes the most awful dialog for her (or at least lets her ad lib). That trix line sounds like something he'd write for her... and I still haven't gotten over the awkwardness of that "two shakes of a lamb's tail" line from Pulp Fiction.

Anyway, it seems like the public reaction to the movie is pretty positive when I was afraid that it was going to sink like a rock. I really had no idea that there was any room in the pop culture theater for something packed to the gills with references to movies that maybe a handful of Americans have seen.

Question for those who've seen it: The script had this hilarious scene in it that I'd heard was never shot but then heard that they added in later. The girl who plays the assassin in the schoolgirl costume (the one from Battle Royale) has this montage scene of her stay in LA before she tries to get revenge on the Bride. Is the fight between them in this movie, or is it implied that they'll fight in the "sequel"? That entire scene was just hilarious in the script, and their actual fight was incredibly well choreographed on the page.
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Re: Re: Please!!! Kill Bill already!!!

Post by Griff [Mola] » Tue Oct 14, 2003 8:37 am

Originally posted by Latte Thunder
Let me guess. This is one of Uma's lines.


I think Lucy Liu says the first sentence of this in one of the trailers, so...

Question for those who've seen it: The script had this hilarious scene in it that I'd heard was never shot but then heard that they added in later. The girl who plays the assassin in the schoolgirl costume (the one from Battle Royale) has this montage scene of her stay in LA before she tries to get revenge on the Bride. Is the fight between them in this movie, or is it implied that they'll fight in the "sequel"? That entire scene was just hilarious in the script, and their actual fight was incredibly well choreographed on the page.


I haven't seen it yet but, like you, I read the script some time ago and as I recall (semi-SPOILERS, you fucks) the scene from the script you mentioned didn't involve the chick from BR but rather her sister who follows the Bride back to the States to avenge her slain sibling. It was the only gunfight in the script and The Bride, bullet ridden and bleeding in some neighbourhood tree house would've made an arresting image. Apparently Tarantino threw the scene out when he realized how bloated KILL BILL's running time would be (now a moot point, really). Shame, cos it really was a highlight of the script.

I do believe that Tarantino is toiling with the idea of possibly rendering this scene in anime for an eventual DVD release combining the two volumes. We shall see.

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Post by Remo D » Tue Oct 14, 2003 9:23 pm

Please indulge the lengthy post: for anyone who's interested, here's the complete text of the letter I just sent to Mick LaSalle.

Dear Mr. LaSalle:

When it comes to criticism (film or otherwise), I make it a point not to take differences of opinion personally. But when I feel that an important point has been missed, or that a completely inappropriate approach has been taken to a given work, I find myself compelled to respond. And while I've been reading your CHRONICLE reviews for well over fifteen years, it was your take on Quentin Tarantino's KILL BILL: VOLUME ONE that finally convinced me to respond to you personally.

That I frequently disagree with your reviews is a matter of opinion and will not be a consideration here. Nor was I surprised that you found disfavor with KILL BILL. In fact, I saw it coming well before the film actually opened--and in a sense, I saw it coming before the film was ever made. This dates back to a post-Columbine article in which you expressed regret for suggesting that screen violence was about to get "interesting" again. Your apology for this statement, your remorse over the real-life violence that you seemed to consider yourself an accessory to (thanks to your enthusiasm over films such as PULP FICTION), and your proposal that all films involving gunplay be rated NC-17 (would that include, for example, a LONE RANGER project?) continue to resonate in the back of my mind whenever I read any of your horror and/or action movie reviews... and to me, it was a foregone conclusion that something like KILL BILL stood no chance of ever winning your approval again.

You are neither the only critic that disliked the film nor are you the voice of the majority: critics and popular audiences across the country seem to be split down the middle, and I have no intention of trying to convince you that you "should" have liked the movie. However, your insistence (you use "unmistakable" more than once) that the mind of its creator represents "barrenness" and is "not worthy of serious attention," coupled with your review's lack of some highly relevant information, suggests to me that you are missing a huge point--and if it's not Tarantino's own declared point, that doesn't make its revelation any less legitimate. Please allow me to share what I consider to be my most relevant observations.

The closeups and the blaring music during the first showdown offer more than a "bloated American tribute" to martial-arts movies. Yes, the music is the theme to TV's IRONSIDE, but that same track was also cannibalized into what became one of the most significant kung-fu hits in America: FIVE FINGERS OF DEATH--while the style on display here also invokes what refer to as "spaghetti westerns." Simple pop references? Second-hand fantasy? Nothing so simple: there's a definite reason why both of these film genres (consistently lumped together in "seen one, seen 'em all" fashion) by critics are being brought into play here. Read on:

What to you was "a tedious sequence about the making of a sword" was to others a much-welcome appearance by Sonny Chiba. Chiba, to U.S. fans, is still perhaps best known for THE STREET FIGHTER: one of the first (if not the very first) films to receive an "X" rating for violence in America before being censored to the point of incomprehensibility. Earlier in the film, a soundtrack selection from MURDER TO THE TUNE OF SEVEN BLACK NOTES (better known to us as THE PSYCHIC), adds the work of Lucio Fulci to the package: Tarantino was responsible for the restored release of Fulci's THE BEYOND (another film shorn of violent content during its initial Stateside release) in America. Incidentally, Fulci's "spaghetti western" FOUR OF THE APOCALYPSE was rarely seen in its complete form, either.

As for the character of Go Go? "Whose delicious fantasy is this," you ask? That, too, has a legitimate answer. Actress Chiaki Kuriyama had previously appeared in the late director Kinji Fukasaku's BATTLE ROYALE--a film in which high school students are forced into a lethal survival competition. The subject matter of this film may prevent it from ever attaining a legitimate American release. And the conclusion of Go Go's final fight scene isn't meant to be either "funny," "cool," or "arousing." It's simply the way such a cinematic fight sequence is destined to end--with an abrupt, shocking termination that temporarily brings the noisy soundtrack to a stunned silence.

There are plenty of other examples, but these will suffice for my point. Film fans and filmmakers alike have had to put up with the blame for society's ills being laid on their doorstep for a long time, and in the time immediately post-Columbine, said blame was ladled on extra-thick by politicians and parental activists alike (for the record, I have two young children of my own, and my wife and I take their upbringing very seriously). But, as the events of the last few years have probably demonstrated to most of the world, true-life violence at its most horrific has precious little to do with the movies--and blaming those who make and enjoy violent entertainment will solve absolutely nothing.

With KILL BILL, Tarantino has done far more than parrot endless, empty references to the 70s (as one with a "barren" mind might do). And he has done more than pay tribute to many of his favorite films and filmmakers (though, of couse, he has done this as well). He has gathered the most significant and controversial examples of cinematic violence that he grew up with (most specifically from films with a history of severe censorship and/or non-release), and he has put them back on the big screen in full force. And with his constant stylization (the use of the anime format and the lengthy black-and-white sequence included), he demonstrates that no matter how extreme the material may be, KILL BILL is still a MOVIE, and not to be confused with real life. Tarantino understands the art of cinematic violence as well as he does its history, and while the results can often be hard to take, KILL BILL is far more than a simple shoot 'em up (or, in this case, a slash 'em up)--it's a frighteningly intelligent film, the timing of which could not be more appropriate.

To not care for the film is fine. To refer to it as "pornography" is to miss the point. And to call it "indefensible" is simply incorrect--it most certainly can be defended, and I believe I have just done so.

Yours sincerely,

Shane M. Dallmann
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Post by Chris Slack » Tue Oct 14, 2003 9:37 pm

Yee haw! Not the best movie it could have been but highly entertaining. I wish they would have gotten someone other than Lucy Liu for the part of O-Ren Ishii though, someone like Maggie Cheung would have been way better for the part :)
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Post by LIVE FO RETSINIM » Sun Oct 19, 2003 4:44 am

yeah I thought that the movie pretty muched ruled.
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Post by tfunk12001 » Mon Oct 20, 2003 3:09 pm

I thought this movie kicked ass! I just wish the big finale stayed in color. I know it was in black and white in the first draft othe script, but I don't think it was a style thing. I think it was for the R rating, since it's going to be in color in japan.

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Post by Remo D » Mon Oct 20, 2003 6:32 pm

MICK LASALLE UPDATE:

Okay--remember the letter I promised to send him? Promises made, promises kept.

However, several days later, I realized that I had left something out of the letter... specifically, my address and phone number for verification purposes (something these newspaper types always want).

Therefore, I re-forwarded my original letter with an extra note on the top, explaining why I was re-sending it, and with my personal info included--just to make everything nice and official-like.

And this morning, lo and behold... a RESPONSE! An actual RESPONSE from a published critic--my first ever!!! And it read...

"Why did you send this to me twice? Just curious."

(sigh)

Well, at least I know for certain that he GOT the damn thing... whether or not he has the gumption to truly ANSWER is yet to be determined.

I'll keep you posted.
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Post by Griff [Mola] » Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:04 am

Originally posted by Remo D
And it read...

"Why did you send this to me twice? Just curious."


What an arsehole.

Send him something else next time, something a little moister...

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Post by Darth Tanner » Mon Dec 01, 2003 3:49 am

I was lucky enough to catch up to this on its last day in town and I agree with the majority that it was awesome. KILL BILL was probably the most fun I've had at the movies in quite some time. I can't say much that hasn't already been covered except that I am in total agreement. Better than JACKIE BROWN, but I still think PULP FICTION was a little bit better. Uma Thurman gave a great performance and was easy on the eyes as well:). In short, I enjoyed every minute of it and look forward to the second part. February can't get here soon enough.
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Post by MuC » Mon Dec 08, 2003 4:29 pm

Originally posted by Kimberly
I had the displeasure of sitting thru House of the Dead.



WHAT!!!!!!????

that movie ruled....hehehehe...:D
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