health care shit that passed

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Post by LIVE FO RETSINIM » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:03 am

DeathFrogg wrote:Actually, if you would have had insurance, that bill would have probably cost around $25, or even nothing. My old plan had a co-pay of $30 for walk in service. It cost $400 a month, but it handled the major costs of a lot of shit.

But it went up every six months. Ten years ago, I was paying about $50 a month for health insurance.

Without insurance, if you got into a car wreck, and needed an ambulance, trauma care, and a hospital stay of a couple days, your bill would probably be around $100,000. The ambulance ride alone will cost a minimum of around $2000. Even if you had the wreck right in front of the hospital. Now think about that, in terms of not being able to work for two or three months after you got out. You think your boss is gonna keep paying that insurance if you're not in the place to pay your half? What if you were out of work when it happened? What if the wreck made it impossible to do your job for the rest of your life?

What if you needed several months of physical therapy on top of all that? Followup surgeries to correct problems that come up?

My brother had his appendix out last year. The surgery used one of those little flexible optical tube things, went in through his asshole, and left no incision. He had no health insurance. His bill was $22,000. For an hour emergency surgery and a night in the hospital.

Now, back to the car wreck. Say you go back to work, and your boss decides that you can't do your job well enough so he lays you off. So you go get another job. The boss tries to get you health insurance through his plan. The Insurance company sees that you've had a major trauma in your history, and still require care from that. They will refuse to offer you insurance, and they deny you coverage based on the fact that you have an injury that occurred before you tried to buy their plan.

Right now, insurance companies are refusing to pay for bills in any case, even if you had paid them for years before you used their system. They can drop you. Just refuse to pay out even with shit they cover in their contract. There are people all over the country who are out of pocket hundreds of thousands of dollars for medical bills, because their health insurance provider flat refused to pay the bills. Medical bills are the number one cause of personal bankruptcies in this country. They can deny you coverage based on a pre-existing condition like hepatitis, or diabetes, or a heart condition.

This is what the Democrats have tried to correct. Unfortunately, they let the insurance companies write most of the bill, so its probably crap in any case. But its something. This ain't over yet.


As for that little black kid, his mother was refused medical care by her insurance company when she got sick. She lost her job because she couldn't work because she was sick, and then she DIED.

Seems to me thats enough.
well I understand HOW insurance works, I have had it in the past, but yes that is cool that they cannot drop you or refuse you.

I see it as a money maker personally, now somone is getting money.
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Post by derek666 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:16 pm

What needs to happen instead of this forced insurance shit, is audit medical billing!! If any of you have an itemized medical bill, look what they charge for shit. My hopital stay a few months ago I had em give mea nicotine patch, $54 for 1 patch, each dose of fucking dilaudid was $23, and the appendix was $23,000. Happy I have insurance, but even if I didn't Providence St Peter's have donor's that cover uninsured, along with them also sending your bill to collection haha double billing.

The greedy insurance asshat's that are knee deep in this fucked bill are the ones profiting, alongside the congressmen that had their pocket's lined by em. Who knows, maybe now with everyone being forced to buy the shit and insurance companies get rich enough it will maybe bring the cost of shit down??? but I doubt it.

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Post by Adremelech » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:32 pm

derek666 wrote: The greedy insurance asshat's that are knee deep in this fucked bill are the ones profiting
What is your source on that one. RushLimbaugh.com?

The insurance companies were against the bill. The lifetime caps are being lifted, and the preexisting condition restriction is being lifted. This is going to cost them billions.
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Post by LIVE FO RETSINIM » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:10 pm

Adremelech wrote:What is your source on that one. RushLimbaugh.com?

The insurance companies were against the bill. The lifetime caps are being lifted, and the preexisting condition restriction is being lifted. This is going to cost them billions.
But, at the same time, it is also going to make them billions.


Believe me, I hate most of that limbaugh republican bs too, but I have a strong feeling something is up here, not like it matters at this point
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Post by DeathFrogg » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:17 pm

Adremelech wrote:What is your source on that one. RushLimbaugh.com?

The insurance companies were against the bill. The lifetime caps are being lifted, and the preexisting condition restriction is being lifted. This is going to cost them billions.

Don't be so sure.

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Post by Adremelech » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:01 pm

DeathFrogg wrote:Don't be so sure.

Remember b'rer Rabbit.
Dont be so sure about what? They were very openly against the bill.
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Post by Adremelech » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:16 pm

Hmmm... After reading up a bit more, it looks like Jody's main point is proven yet again: Nobody knows what the hell is going on. After what I've read, it looks like the the insurance companies will indeed benefit from this in the long run. So I'm right there with everyone else who doesn't have a flippin clue what's going to happen.

I'm still for the reform though. :-)
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Post by LIVE FO RETSINIM » Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:47 am

Adremelech wrote:Hmmm... After reading up a bit more, it looks like Jody's main point is proven yet again: Nobody knows what the hell is going on. After what I've read, it looks like the the insurance companies will indeed benefit from this in the long run. So I'm right there with everyone else who doesn't have a flippin clue what's going to happen.

I'm still for the reform though. :-)
Well of course the insurance companies will benifit, we are forced to pay them. It is a sure thing for them.


I have even heard even scarier stuff, dont' know if it is true, but I have heard that they will make it illegal to get "natural remedies" and herbal type shit as well, even more than it is. We just entered The Machine I think.


I heard that one person said we have to pass it to find out what it is about. It's the end of the country basically, run by stupid, stupid people. It's too bad. The smartest people all went into finance or software or something instead of leadership, and this is the result.


The propaganda has painted that Tea Party as "racists" and other shit like that, but so far I dont' think they are that crazy. The Tea Party is the reason we have what we have today.
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Post by DeathFrogg » Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:59 am

LIVE FO RETSINIM wrote:Well of course the insurance companies will benefit, we are forced to pay them. It is a sure thing for them.


I have even heard even scarier stuff, don't' know if it is true, but I have heard that they will make it illegal to get "natural remedies" and herbal type shit as well, even more than it is. We just entered The Machine I think.
That already happens with insurance companies. They wont cover costs from naturopaths.

I heard that one person said we have to pass it to find out what it is about. It's the end of the country basically, run by stupid, stupid people. It's too bad. The smartest people all went into finance or software or something instead of leadership, and this is the result.


The propaganda has painted that Tea Party as "racists" and other shit like that, but so far I dont' think they are that crazy. The Tea Party is the reason we have what we have today.

So "one person" is an authority? The problem was the GOP shitkickers in the Senate tried, over and over, to block coverage for obstetricians, gynecologists, allergists and oncologists. John McCain and that retarted prick from Texas, Cornwyn, actively tried to connect funding to the War in Afghanistan and and immigration reform.

And they ARE racist assholes. Go to a Tea party gathering, and you will see: KKK flags, Robes, nooses, accusations of genocidal intentions towards white people, FEMA death camp rumors, and open hatred for folks of latino decent. There were NO black people at the big convention they had in D.C. a few weeks ago. You will see NO black folks at their weird little klaverns they're holding all over the country. Organizations like Stormfront, the CCC and the John Birch Society actively voice their support for the Teabagger movement, and those are organizations with a long, well established history of racist and xenophobic public postures.

These
People
Are
Racists
Psychos
And morons.

These folks STILL talk about the birth certificate non-issue, they continually reference how threatened their children are. How Obama is handing the country over to the terrorists, how he's a communist.

Its all bullshit. It's just incindiary language designed to scare people. They have nothing of their own to offer except their own panicky whining about how they have had "their" country taken away from them.

They hate educated people, they hate gays, they hate Mexicans and South Americans, all they want is to destroy. Sarah Palin goes on about how we need "leadership" and not a professor of law standing at the lectern. But that is exactly what we need most right now, someone who understands Constitutional law, and would work within that framework to mitigate the gigantic economic shitstorm the previous administrations created.

None of these people had any problem with GWB increasing the Federal budget 4 fold, and none of these people have any problem with the fact that he openly lied to get a war started so he could "be a war president" and drop high explosives and incendiaries on other peoples babies, while handing the treasury over to private companies like Halliburton, KBR and Bechtel. But they certainly DO have a problem with the government spending the peoples money on the people themselves in the promotion of the general welfare.

These are the hardcore redneck assholes of the country. Fuck them. If they hate it, I'm all for it.
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Post by derek666 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:05 pm

There are racists amongst the Democratic party also, they get away with saying stupid shit ublike when the tea party fucks say something. What do you call all the minorities at these tea party gatherings?? There will always be jackasses amongst any group. What really makes me sick is they have that twat, I hate her name, as their talking head and ignorant fucks like that cunt!! That makes em look even stupider, is that a word?

The insurance companies are reaping all the benefit's from this bill!! Tack on the 32 plus million people paying for it, along with them making the cost's go down on what is charged for care, hell yes they will be making more money hand over fist. You can't believe that those bastards dont control the cost of care!!

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Post by derek666 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 3:55 pm

Adremelech wrote:What is your source on that one. RushLimbaugh.com?

The insurance companies were against the bill. The lifetime caps are being lifted, and the preexisting condition restriction is being lifted. This is going to cost them billions.
are you obssessed with that fat bastard? that fat fuck needs to keep his mouth shut and eat some more pills!! preferably ones that put him to sleep forever.

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Post by derek666 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 3:57 pm

Adremelech wrote:Hmmm... After reading up a bit more, it looks like Jody's main point is proven yet again: Nobody knows what the hell is going on. After what I've read, it looks like the the insurance companies will indeed benefit from this in the long run. So I'm right there with everyone else who doesn't have a flippin clue what's going to happen.

I'm still for the reform though. :-)
Reform yes, lining pockets NO!!

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Post by derek666 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:08 pm

and the other side of the tea party

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC9X5moi ... re=related

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Post by derek666 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:20 pm

derek666 wrote:and the other side of the tea party

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC9X5moi ... re=related
and more

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcsnWLLd ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bLq3vvdGvM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzgCS0xY2iY

a small minority of people do NOT make the whole group the same. labeling them all as being racist is plain ignorant, but whatever. people who only believe what Olberman and Maddow preach will only believe one side, same goes foridiots who only believe Hannity and Rush.

These pricks stealing our money need to show where the hell it is actually going.

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Post by DeathFrogg » Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:40 pm

derek666 wrote:and the other side of the tea party

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC9X5moi ... re=related

Well, thats a nicely scripted propaganda piece. But it proves nothing.

Every single teabagger I have engaged in a one-on-one conversation with, has been a randroid nutball who continually quote Alex Jones or Glen Beck or Sarah Palin, not understanding that those folks are morons, and couldn't articulate their way out of a wet paper bag in a real, unscripted formal debate. They use words like the N word, and the G word and the K or J word in normal conversation when they're relaxed.

No original thoughts whatsoever and bigoted as hell.

This political movement, is financed by organizations like the John Birch Society, the Council for Conservative Citizens, Daughters of the American Revolution etc, that have a long, well established history of antisemitism, jingoism, racism and radical protestantism. These are the same folks that were calling Dwight D Eisenhower a communist back in the 1950's. The same folks that hold Joe McCarthy, Richard Nixon and Henry Anslinger to be political gods.

These "teabagger" folks, are preaching fascism, pure and simple.
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Post by derek666 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:15 pm

DeathFrogg wrote:Well, thats a nicely scripted propaganda piece. But it proves nothing.

Every single teabagger I have engaged in a one-on-one conversation with, has been a randroid nutball who continually quote Alex Jones or Glen Beck or Sarah Palin, not understanding that those folks are morons, and couldn't articulate their way out of a wet paper bag in a real, unscripted formal debate. They use words like the N word, and the G word and the K or J word in normal conversation when they're relaxed.

No original thoughts whatsoever and bigoted as hell.

This political movement, is financed by organizations like the John Birch Society, the Council for Conservative Citizens, Daughters of the American Revolution etc, that have a long, well established history of antisemitism, jingoism, racism and radical protestantism. These are the same folks that were calling Dwight D Eisenhower a communist back in the 1950's. The same folks that hold Joe McCarthy, Richard Nixon and Henry Anslinger to be political gods.

These "teabagger" folks, are preaching fascism, pure and simple.
I could say the same thing about the bigoted hippies here in Oly as well. The racism is alive and well from both parties, pissed off Hitlery supporters that hate Obama. Its a double standard that needs to quit, Harry Reidsays stupidshit apologizes and is forgiven, but when its spewed from the right oh shit.

The worst thing about the tea bag dipshit's, besides the few racist's, is they have that cunt as a talking head, and now that they are growing, other dipshit's like Rush and Hannity and their flock of idiots.

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Post by LIVE FO RETSINIM » Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:28 am

DeathFrogg wrote:That already happens with insurance companies. They wont cover costs from naturopaths.
.
yeah i know, and it's going to get more restrictive.

DeathFrogg wrote: So "one person" is an authority? The problem was the GOP shitkickers in the Senate tried, over and over, to block coverage for obstetricians, gynecologists, allergists and oncologists. John McCain and that retarted prick from Texas, Cornwyn, actively tried to connect funding to the War in Afghanistan and and immigration reform.
.
well yeah, when the "one person" is the congressmen or governer or whatever the fuck she was (sorry i don't follow politics). It wasn't just some idiot on the street it was an elected official. When the person that said it is an elective official then YES, they ARE an authority. Acutally, I think an elective official is the definition of an authority figure.

You aren't talking to some right winger or nut of any side. I feel that I see things that you don't see. Actually, when I really read through all that stuff you write, a lot of it doesn't really say much.






DeathFrogg wrote:
And they ARE racist assholes. Go to a Tea party gathering, and you will see: KKK flags, Robes, nooses, accusations of genocidal intentions towards white people, FEMA death camp rumors, and open hatred for folks of latino decent. There were NO black people at the big convention they had in D.C. a few weeks ago. You will see NO black folks at their weird little klaverns they're holding all over the country. Organizations like Stormfront, the CCC and the John Birch Society actively voice their support for the Teabagger movement, and those are organizations with a long, well established history of racist and xenophobic public postures.

These
People
Are
Racists
Psychos
And morons.

These folks STILL talk about the birth certificate non-issue, they continually reference how threatened their children are. How Obama is handing the country over to the terrorists, how he's a communist.

Its all bullshit. It's just incindiary language designed to scare people. They have nothing of their own to offer except their own panicky whining about how they have had "their" country taken away from them.

They hate educated people, they hate gays, they hate Mexicans and South Americans, all they want is to destroy. Sarah Palin goes on about how we need "leadership" and not a professor of law standing at the lectern. But that is exactly what we need most right now, someone who understands Constitutional law, and would work within that framework to mitigate the gigantic economic shitstorm the previous administrations created.

None of these people had any problem with GWB increasing the Federal budget 4 fold, and none of these people have any problem with the fact that he openly lied to get a war started so he could "be a war president" and drop high explosives and incendiaries on other peoples babies, while handing the treasury over to private companies like Halliburton, KBR and Bechtel. But they certainly DO have a problem with the government spending the peoples money on the people themselves in the promotion of the general welfare.

These are the hardcore redneck assholes of the country. Fuck them. If they hate it, I'm all for it.
dude, I looked at some of the videos, and uh... the one that says "the worst of the signs".. are you kidding me? That is all they have? So making a sign that says "obama supports white slavery" is racist? Anyone against the Tea Party so far in my opinion is grasping at strings. OK, so there are a few religious nuts in there, but that is America assholes. That is what we are about, everyone gathered together to believe in what they want. I did not see ANY racist signs, just because they are white holding a sign that contains the word "white" doesn't make them racist.

That is overboard and unbelievable. You are pushing thinking people like me away from the liberal point of view by insulting my intellegence. It seems like you all dont' know what you are doing either, and turning this peice of shit cuntry into a socialist lockdown.
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Post by Blonde leading the blonde » Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:41 am

LIVE FO RETSINIM wrote:My other point is this: I would have medical if I could afford it. So now what? How does passing a law saying you must purchase something you cannot afford help our country out? I think everyone would have insurance if they could afford it. Making it mandatory doesn't help this situation out.
I didn't see a reply to this in all the angry posts. There is some help here in the bill. First, more employers will have to offer it, and second, there will be pools and etc. that make it more affordable, complete with sliding scales and such.

Truly, it isn't perfect. It couldn't possibly ever be perfect. The thing is, we've been fighting any legislation of this nature with so much anger for so long, that getting anything passed is a miracle, and honestly, I think it will help and I also think it will need some repair and modification.

The bill was passed through a political process, so there's a bunch of "Public Servants" currently in bed with a bunch of special interests and they're all smoking a cigarette right now, to be sure. That doesn't mean that Armageddon is around the corner, though. Really guys, if you want to be more convincing, dispense with the all-or-nothing, doomsday language and start talking about what's right and what's wrong in a way that doesn't make you sound like you should be in Downtown Seattle wearing rags for shoes and carrying a "The End Is Near" sign.

Seriously.
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Post by -deathboy- » Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:27 am

once again, we realize why blondie was voted as supreme empress of the universe.
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Post by Jonathan » Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:18 pm

Why the hell am I paying for Social Security? I'm not fucking old!!
Why the hell am I paying taxes that go to schools? no kids and I'm not in school!
Why the hell am I paying for new roads? There's only like 5 I drive on!

I say, we don't pay for insurance, we don't pay for schools, we don't pay for social security, roads, fuck any taxes. Let everyone fend for themselves. And if they can't get a job to pay for their own insurance, school or food, fuck e'm. Not my problem.

Fuck the police as well.

It was going perfectly well a month ago. I only had a few female friends who can't get covered based on pre-existing conditions. And they're only twenty or so thousand dollars in medical debt. What the fuck do I care? I've got a job, healthy and I'm guy!

Fuck compassion. Fuck making something affordable to the poor. They're poor, not me. I'm middle class, with insurance I never use.

Things were perfectly fine before. I was doing good, sure, some friends were in debt because they've got basic medical needs. But I was doing good!
Take a picture, trick. I'm on a boat, bitch.

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Post by LIVE FO RETSINIM » Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:57 pm

Jonathan wrote:Why the hell am I paying for Social Security? I'm not fucking old!!
Why the hell am I paying taxes that go to schools? no kids and I'm not in school!
Why the hell am I paying for new roads? There's only like 5 I drive on!

I say, we don't pay for insurance, we don't pay for schools, we don't pay for social security, roads, fuck any taxes. Let everyone fend for themselves. And if they can't get a job to pay for their own insurance, school or food, fuck e'm. Not my problem.

Fuck the police as well.

It was going perfectly well a month ago. I only had a few female friends who can't get covered based on pre-existing conditions. And they're only twenty or so thousand dollars in medical debt. What the fuck do I care? I've got a job, healthy and I'm guy!

Fuck compassion. Fuck making something affordable to the poor. They're poor, not me. I'm middle class, with insurance I never use.

Things were perfectly fine before. I was doing good, sure, some friends were in debt because they've got basic medical needs. But I was doing good!
FINALLY you listen to me! I am glad you finally came around to my way of thinking. It's about time after all the speaches I have given you!
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DeathFrogg
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Post by DeathFrogg » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:58 am

One of the things being whispered around about the health insurance reform is the fact that the banks were extracting the premiums that people pay into the system for health care to support their massive losses on the ponzi schemes they've been running for the last 30 years.

Banks are the largest shareholders in the insurance industry and the major driving force behind the massive increases in the premiums that folks are paying for the privilege of having health care made available to them. The banks demand the highest return on their investments for the short term loans they supply the insurance companies for basic support of the system. Banks, as everyone has figured out by now, have been flat out looting the treasury through loan fraud and manipulation of the stock markets, then handing over the cash differential to the CEOs and other major officers in the corporations as bonuses for their performance.

The CEO of UnitedHealthcare was making $821,917 a day in salary and benefits. That is $300 million per year. This is a company that controls about a fifth of the total health insurance market in the country. The CEO of WellPoint, Angela Braly, earned $9,844,212 in annual salary and holds almost $20 million in stock, and has exercised almost $6 million in stock options in the last 4 years. From 2000-2007, the ten largest health insurance companies increased their profits 428 percent: from 2.4 billion to 12.9 billion. Despite this, the number of uninsured rose 19 percent, from 38.4 million to 45.7 million. Health insurance CEO's earned $11.9 million per year on the average. The CEO of Cigna alone made $25.8 million in 2007.

These are companies that promote and give bonuses to the claims adjusters and managers for denial of health insurance to the clients, they actively reward the claims reps by way of bonuses for denial of coverage on the thinnest of excuses. If you have a history of hay fever for example, they can deny your claim when you catch pneumonia. If you have a baby born with a heart defect, they deny the claim on the surgery to repair the problem on the basis of a pre-existing condition.

Where do the banks come into this?

Those salaries are pre-profit. The banks that invest in the insurance companies regularly demand large chunks of insurance company stock as collateral for the short term loans they hand out to them. That stock is supposed to be held in trust until the terms of the loans they gave out are complete, but the insurance companies regularly will allow the banks to sell off the stock in private sales to other banks and investment firms to pay off the loans.

Those banks have been openly manipulating the price of the stock, selling it short or manufacturing a demand by overvaluing it to the shareholders of the banking firms themselves, then passing off that hyped up value as profit on the initial transaction. Meanwhile, the banks overstate their losses to the SEC based on the cost of the original transactions and get huge taxpayer-funded bailouts based on those losses. They can show the loss on one quarterly statement, get the TARP funds and the tax writeoffs and have an excuse to lay people off, then pay out those bonuses and report the TARP money as increased revenue, thereby increasing their stock value on paper for the next quarter. That makes the stockholders in the banks very happy so they agree with the bonus structure the banks have in place for their top executives.

What the health Insurance reform bill tried to address is this re-arrangement of the deck chairs on a sinking ship. What it did do was give the Federal Government some leverage against the insurance companies when they shift the cash value of their company from the service sector to the stock price by denying claims and raising premiums for the consumer. It also made it illegal to deny claims based on spurious misrepresentation of other issues that aren't related to the initial claim.

The whole system is a complete scam. It is just a balloon. The shits gonna hit the fan sometime.
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When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross. -Sinclair Lewis


"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. - Thomas Jefferson

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derek666
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Post by derek666 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:54 am

reform yes, forced to line pockets NO


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